Beginner Women

Exploring Intersectionality at Early Career with Dr. Golnaz Golnaraghi

Episode Summary

Leaving behind a successful career in marketing management with large multi-national service firms, Dr. Golnaz Golnaraghi shifted focus to enter academia and explore leadership theory through a feminist lens. Now leading her own independent consulting practice, Golnaz teaches and develops future leaders in a range of settings. Recently, her passion to advance representation and leadership of women led Golnaz to create Accelerate Her Future™, a career accelerator for self-identifying women of colour pursuing careers in business and STEM.

Episode Notes

In this Episode of Beginner Women, join host Katharine Cornfield as she and Dr. Golnaz Golnaraghi discuss gender, diversity and the importance of developing future leaders. Tune in to learn how best to support young women as they navigate and advance their careers, especially for those with overlapping aspects to their identity. Discover how Golnaz's own lived experience has informed her research and inspired her to create Accelerate Her Future™.

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Episode Transcription

Unknown Speaker 0:02 Welcome to beginner women, a podcast where we throw out our adult agendas and focus on what it takes to shape a new future for girls and young women. From education and career to health and wealth. We talked to experts, thought leaders and extraordinary women who will change the way you think about girls, women and ambition. here's your host, Katherine cornfields.

Katharine Cornfield 0:25 Welcome to beginner women. I'm Katharine Kornfield, founder of ambiSHEous and that's ambiSHEous with a she where we take a unique approach to leadership and career development. We've helped hundreds of girls and young women to develop autonomy agency and purpose by equipping them with the critical skills and knowledge they need to thrive today and in tomorrow's world. We started this podcast because we know how important everyday role models are. And we want to empower you parents, educators and other caring adults with smart, actionable strategies to help the beginner with Men in your lives reach their full potential. Thank you so much for joining us. I am thrilled today to be joined by Dr. Golnaz Golnaraghi an advocate and consultant in the areas of inclusion, belonging and women in leadership. She is founder of her own consulting company divinity group Incorporated, and founder of Accelerate Her Future an accelerator for young women of color. Golnaz as is a proponent for systems based solution, applying an intersectional lens on data driven decision making, and a strong believer in the importance of developing future leaders. In her TEDx talk from silence to voice gonad shared her very personal journey to embrace her hybrid identity as a Muslim feminist. Dr. Golnaz Golnaraghi is also an award winning scholar. She earned a BA from the University of British Columbia and holds both masters and doctorate degrees in Business Administration. In addition to her consulting work, she is currently an associate faculty member at Royal Roads University NAS is also an investor and proud founder of women led startups through shio. And the Founders Fund by TST. And volunteers, her time mentoring girls from diverse cultural backgrounds for the big brothers and Big Sisters of helping in Hamilton, Ontario. So obviously, we have lots to talk about today. Thank you so much for taking the time to join me.

Golnaz Golnaraghi 2:19 My pleasure, Katharine.

Katharine Cornfield 2:20 It's going to be a really great conversation. It's very interesting and I'm looking forward to diving in because we have lots to lots of common interest. So today, I think we'll we'll start a little bit with your own career journey, including your shift in academics which is of interest to me, meaningful ways to work towards diversity inclusion inside organizations and society. The importance of developing future leaders and of course your Accelerate Her Future accelerator for young women of color. So let's get started.

Golnaz Golnaraghi 2:49 Let's do this sounds great.

Katharine Cornfield 2:51 Okay, so here at beginner women, we love to engage thought leaders and experts but I never, ever liked to miss the opportunity to contextualize especially When it comes to women leaders like yourself, so I want to, of course, start with your own story. I understand that you took a turn towards academia and consulting but but after 15 years in marketing management roles with multinational consulting and professional service firms, what prompted that pivot? What was the driver? And what did you set out to accomplish?

Golnaz Golnaraghi 3:21 That's a great question. So, I'd like to start briefly where with how my journey than working with professional services started, because I think it's very relevant to our conversation, particularly around beginner women. So when I was in university at UBC, in my fourth year, Katharine, I really hadn't mindfully thought about my career until that fourth year, which to me was, you know, in hindsight a bit problematic. And my first opportunity came through really, from seeing a posting on my professors door asking about it and And he is what I would consider my first surreal sponsor where he actually recommended me to this one particular firm for an interview. And had that not happened a had I not not asked about it, but be had he not referred me I don't think I would have applied and that's really what prompted that, initially my career in professional services. So for a first career, it was absolutely fantastic because I had the opportunity to launch the marketing role and department for this one particular firm in Vancouver. And that sort of navigated into a 15 year career that brought me eventually to Toronto back in 2001, with another large professional services firm in a national role overseeing their market marketing function for retail and consumer markets. Eventually, what really prompted me to shift was really becoming a mother and having to commute to Toronto and You know, navigating a very, very demanding career and juggling the different balls that one has, at particularly as a working mother and a decision did not come lately, to be honest, I actually worked with a coach for about a year to make an informed decision around what that next career would be for me, and that's where I landed on academia. And what I actually negotiated with my employer at the time was to work four days a week, full time hours and taught for one day a week to really test that that career to see if it's something that was aligned with my strengths and my passions. And I loved the experience in the classroom with students, and ultimately made the decision to shift careers into academia, very intentionally.

Katharine Cornfield 5:46 You've almost skipped my next question, because first of all, thank you for sharing that the sort of the preamble the pre log to that shift and obviously that that transition from postsecondary into the workforce in your case well supported by by a sponsor and then having that early experience be very, very positive. But then that that sort of hitting that wall of reality as a mother with a commute and so on. That was my next question is how did you go about practically making that change? And You did very deliberately seeing a coach and then testing it out, and then very sort of consciously making that shift. So thank you for sharing that. I know that young women today are likely going to have to make those shifts many times in their career. So it's really helpful and beneficial to hear your example, especially because it was so conscious and thoughtful and deliberate. So, next up, I am now going to shift to that sort of academic middle year and that environment. I know from my research that you would characterize yourself as an intersectional feminist management scholar I was hoping that you could break that down for our listeners a bit, it would be really helpful for us to better understand your academic work on leadership and diversity and inclusion inside organizations or otherwise before we dive into the rest of the discussion,

Golnaz Golnaraghi 7:17 for sure. So when I navigated into academia, I was in my early 30s, and at some point, I decided I wanted to pursue my doctorate, which I started in my late 30s. And so, delving into my coursework and my research, that's really when I started exploring issues of gender and diversity and intersect sec intersectionality. Not only in terms of, for example, newcomer immigrant women and how they see themselves but also their labor market experiences, but also in particular Muslim women and their experiences with a North American context. So the label of if you will intersectional feminist and management scholar is really what I stepped into as I started delving into the research and working through my doctorate. And really what you know, the research what woke me up to as an immigrant woman who has been living in Canada for many, many years, is that there are multiple overlapping aspects to our identity and intersectionality is a work that was essentially popularized by black feminist and one notable one is Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw. And so, you know, in my case specifically and in the research, when you have gender and when you have a race and culture and religion sort of overlapping, those experiences, lived experiences can be quite different when when we look At these intersections, if that makes sense.

Katharine Cornfield 9:02 Yes, absolutely. So was the focus of your research, then those intersections inside organizations or inside within the context of society? Because you talked a bit a little bit about the labor market? Yeah. That's a

Golnaz Golnaraghi 9:17 great question. So I would say both. So one stream of my research really looked at constructions of Muslim women in Canada, really, within the context of some of the policy moves that were coming out of Quebec. And I was curious as to, you know, why was that happening in Canada, but more importantly, how do Muslim women define their own identity and then how others may define their identity as well. And I primarily delved into media and newspaper articles to do that assessment, and that was more societal, if you will. And then another stream of my research really looked at immigrants and particularly racialized immigrants from newcomers to Canada and their labor market experiences specifically. So I would say both depending on which stream of research we look at, I see.

Katharine Cornfield 10:10 So I know you and I have talked before and I have some background in, in labor market integration as well spent several years at the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, which is not called that now it's called BRCC. But I think what's interesting is that you took sort of the first that media lens and and sort of took that approach to understanding how society might perceive some of those intersections. But then you're working consulting is more ism. And maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, but my sense is that you're working more inside organizations to develop and maybe tackle the systems inside organizations to help improve the integration and inclusion and diversity. component inside of organizations is that accurate? To some degree?

Golnaz Golnaraghi 11:02 I would say that my consulting work I mean that what you've talked to is absolutely up most important to me, whether it's as a consultant as a human being or an or an activist or advocate for this work, most of my consulting today, it has really been around team development around these issues, leadership development around these issues, as well as program development. So, for example, I recently came off a three year project for a not for profit organization that works with youth from diverse young women from diverse cultural backgrounds. And that work was really around creating programming and curriculum that would support young women and navigating the multiple aspects of their of their identity both within their their school life but also within the different communities that they see themselves in. So my work sort of has tentacles not only into the not for profit world, as well as academia and for profit organizations.

Katharine Cornfield

Interesting. So in that program design and the curriculum design, when you define young women are you are you working at a certain age or stage? Are you are you taking a broad lens? Is it because I know your Accelerate Her stuff is more early career, so?

Golnaz Golnaraghi

Absolutely, absolutely. So, I would say with the consulting work that particular project focused on young women girls, between grades six through eight, because that is quite a pivotal pivotal time, on my own work with Accelerate Her Future. The focus is specifically on self identifying women of color in college and university, businesses STEM programs. And the reason why I have that particular focus is Not only from my own lived experiences, so being in university, that wasn't until my fourth year that I even started intentionally thinking about my career. And also having taught for over a decade, the number of women that I've mentored and the themes that sort of came forward as well as my research. And so I recognize that there's so many amazing programs that kind of focus on girls and young women like ambiSHEous . In my work, I chose to work with the group that is in college and university and and really starting the conversation around career development as well as how our identities play into that starting in your one, right, you're one of school as opposed to what I did, which was, in some ways lucky, but in some ways a little bit later, you know, then then what I would have hoped for myself.

Katharine Cornfield 13:54 It's It's so interesting, because I mean, I'm so thrilled to have you here because I know that there's so much commonality Between your experience in the it well, your academic experience and my and my sort of professional background, and then and then in your sort of desire to, to program and, and and sort of design interventions for women, girls and women at almost similar stages to me in other words, you know you're you talked about that project with grades six to eight, which is a very, very pivotal time and I do want to come back to that because that is where I started as well. And I want to maybe unpack why use what you learned about that and see how similar it is to what I've learned. But before I do go back, I want to talk about the sort of that driver to create Accelerate Her Future based on your own lived experience, which is that you didn't think about it early enough in your mind, and so you're doing what you can to help flag some of that thinking for young Women early and I find in my own work with ambiSHEous that I have a similar drive less so about the post secondary and more so about the early career. And I often have women of all kinds at all stages young and old. Personally and professionally tell me I wish I'd have known what I know now, or I wish somebody had told me what you're now telling young women do you get that

Golnaz Golnaraghi 15:33 all the time. So it's that's quite interesting all the time. So last year, I hosted a design session for 25 plus women that really informed the Accelerate Her Future concept. Again, because I didn't want to do this out of a vacuum of what coolness thinks needs to happen, right? We all have different experiences. And so from that session, five women step forward volunteered their time to work with me and bringing our first event which was a summit that we held in October to life. And the common denominator between why they all wanted to work with me and their incredible commitment was, I wish I had a program like this when I was in school. And, you know, that's very telling, and then flash forward to the summit where we had, certainly students as well as recent graduates, we also had mentors that are quite senior within their organizations. And even they were saying, the reason why I want to be a part of this is because I wish I had a program like this when I was in school. So that's absolutely a common theme. And I will add, you know, personally, beyond thinking about my career in in year four, also, you know, there were other barriers as well, now that I reflect back that I couldn't have labeled at the time and a couple of examples that I see In some of the young women that came to our session are things like, my mom worked six to seven days a week to support her children, me and my brother. And so that meant that I really had to rely on, you know, teachers and whatnot because we didn't have connections into employers or influential people. So I really needed to rely on my community within my school. And I was lucky that I had a professor that saw something in me and actually made a difference. So access to influential people and decision makers, as well as that mentoring are things that I see today that may be lacking that we're trying to address to Accelerate Her Future.

Katharine Cornfield 17:45 That's, that's fantastic. I had the same sense. I mean, obviously, very, very different lived experience. I'm Canadian born I grew up in the middle class. I grew up in Ottawa where you You know, my first job was on the hill, through people I knew, but I still sense that there are things that we we aren't collectively. And maybe we're just growing aware over time of those things that that didn't exist when, when we were younger. And there's such a strong desire among women to really pass that knowledge backwards and to give it tangibly to the next generation of young women. And I experienced that in the programming with with the same sort of draw with with mentors and women who are little further along in their career who want to who want to pass that along, and to really make clear what the barriers are in some cases, but also to share the experience of and those actionable tips about sort of how you can navigate and what might be missing in your toolbox and that kind of stuff. So It is striking how similar the the impetus we both have is and yet the program intervention is, is it's not as similar as maybe it? Or maybe it is I would be curious about sort of what is the content of the curriculum? I know I'm really focused on money, business and politics as sort of the the pillars, if you will, that, that go into just about all the decision making organizationally in society. And and so for me, it's very knowledge driven. It's your programming more around competency, or is it around context? Is it? Is it what does the substance of the Accelerate Her Future summit look like?

Golnaz Golnaraghi 19:46 So that's, again, a great question. So bear in mind that we have launched once and it was really a pilot, and the content was really first and foremost about creating a safe space. For storytelling and an honest conversations and a space where the students and graduates and early career women that were a part of the experience, could really connect with peers as well as our mentors and speakers, first and foremost, so community building, and then we very intentionally with the summit team that was working with me that is working with me, came up with programming that was incredibly tailored and customized from, you know, part inspiration where we had Coleman Haas, who I think, you know, very from from Ottawa, actually came as our keynote and Changemaker talk and she shared a very powerful, vulnerable real story about her lived experience. And the same goes that you can't be what you can't see. So I think it was quite moving and powerful and, you know, quite a unique experience for these early career women. To see themselves in the speakers and what they were listening to. And so moving on from that, and we created kind of programming that was parts fireside chat, kind of, you know, in terms of exploring what are the potential landmines and barriers that one might experience in the workplace recognizing that it may be different for each and every one of us. Yet How have two successful women navigate navigated that and what solutions and tips and advice might they have to share? We also had a panel of recruiters because that's a big one for for early career women like how does that really work? What happens behind the scenes? How can I build relationships with recruiters and be noticed? How do I stand out as well as networking? Very practical session on like, what do we really mean about networking and how do we navigate spaces where we may not see ourselves in the room in a meaningful way, right? So again, bringing that intersectional lens into the programming, that in this case was very career focused, as well as focused on building those relationships with the mentoring. So that mentoring was peppered all the way throughout whether through breakout discussions or, you know, time for for the women to speak with their mentors. And as we move forward, we're now collecting and looking at themes that came out of our post event surveys, which we had over 50% response, which is quite high to kind of do the visioning and programming for next year beyond a summit and what that could look like. So maybe in a year, I can share more, but at this point, that's really where we're at.

Katharine Cornfield 22:47 Well, that's, that's great, because that was actually my next question, and then I am going to circle back to to those middle school girls because I can't quite keep going without doing that. But my question was with with Respect to your sort of your summit your pilot? What what you started with and what you've heard what is what is sort of your big takeaway from from that experience so far?

Golnaz Golnaraghi 23:12 The biggest takeaway is, you know, when when I look at the ecosystem, right so when I look at not only as a professor researcher, but also now launching Accelerate Her Future, I think colleges and universities, the Career Centers, they truly from my experience in navigating working with them, they have been so supportive of Accelerate Her Future. They really genuinely care about the future of our students and their careers. And so it was really lovely for me to see how they embraced what we're doing that sends me a signal that there's a need for something like this, as well as employers. So from the mentors that we had on board and their support for what we're doing that also gave me a sense for something Like this. And the biggest takeaway is that ultimately what we're trying to do is create a safe space or these important conversations. And again, I can't stress enough, you cannot be what you can't see. So how can we as we navigate forward with Accelerate Her Future is to create more opportunities for early career women to have to interact with mentors to have honest conversations and explore and build their network as well as a more intentional approach to dreaming big and really fulfilling their careers and and potential at the end of the day.

Katharine Cornfield 24:36 Well, that's very, very promising, because I sense in my own work that same need and that same openness and this very sort of early maybe dawning realization that those early careers are that transition from school to work and that early career is really, really critical in terms of providing the right information at the right time and to Getting being very tangible and practical with you. They can take that sort of medium to long term view. So I'm going to actually circle back because you did talk about a large project that you did around. And I think you said it was programming for girls in sort of the six, grade six to grade eight range. And I was hoping briefly, if you could just describe a little bit about what that was, and then what you took away from it. I'm curious, I can't help myself,

Golnaz Golnaraghi 25:30 for sure. So this is a project that I did with Big Brothers Big Sisters of halten in Hamilton, and that particular organization, I've been a mentor, Big Sister, I started being a big sister in grade 12 with back at when I lived in the US, and I've always had an affinity for their work. And so they have a program called glow, which is primarily focused on building the leadership skills and and some comments sees for sure for girls from diverse backgrounds in grades six to eight. And when I came on board working very collaboratively with with the team, we basically our goal was to not only scale the program but also to build the curriculum and move the program from a seven week offering into the into a 10 week offering because that was really a need was identified. And so while at the same time ensuring that the the girls that were part of this, this program, regardless of their background, that we have the conversations around identity and stereotypes as well as inclusion and all those different pieces as well as practicing leadership. And so for three years, we really embraced a design thinking mentality where throughout the three years as we built a program, tweaked it and developed it and measured and tracked impact, very much Kind of peppered with research making sure that we got feedback and research and data, both quantitative and qualitative, from all the key stakeholders, as well as the girls, because they're an important stakeholder to make sure that the program was sticky and had impact and was was meant to do what it was supposed to do. And I'm so proud of this project, because ultimately, the data was incredibly positive. And what the teachers and some of the stakeholders were seeing was behavior change, and more confidence and all these different pieces. So it's really about the young women, the girls embracing who they truly are, right? It's not about it's not about fixing and I know you and I have talked about that. But really, how do we step into our leadership and step into our personal power? One of the most impactful programs I've been a part of

Katharine Cornfield 27:54 fantastic I am familiar with glow now that you that you shared it, and I was not aware that you were as involved as you were. And I'm, it's, it's interesting to me because I think what I learned and I did start, I'll be quite honest with my own adult agenda, I went looking for something that didn't exist for my daughter at a particularly challenging time in my life with a convergence of circumstances that led me to think that something should be there for all of us to go and sort of equip girls with so I and she was in that sort of phase of grade seven. She was in grade seven, so just having sort of left childhood behind. And so I started without agenda and I feel like I've become I've gone full circle to advocate because I found that there's so much noise and so much of cultural narrative around girls at that stage that we miss a little bit that they are beginners, which is where beginner women come from, right. They really are beginner adults. They have left child And there is a loss. At that point they've they've changed. They've gone through a massive transition not just in terms of their their developmentally and physiologically and so on. But they've they're now in the midst of changing how they go to school, they're changing the routines, their relationships are changing with each other with boys in the classroom. There's a whole set of expectations that that are automatically placed on them. And nobody's actually given them the memo.

Golnaz Golnaraghi 29:28 And I would add social media has also a huge impact at that age. Right. That's another actually.

Katharine Cornfield 29:34 Yeah. And so I wonder if because I know, I know that this is you're probably the only person who will understand what I'm asking this. But I I really wonder and I'm this is I did not expect to go there with this question. But I'm going to, I really wonder if the concept of social capital ought to be sort of applied to young women at that stage and that that they don't have any in seventh and eighth grade. And yet we label that as a loss of self esteem. And I am curious about your perspective on that.

Golnaz Golnaraghi 30:09 I think that's a great question. You're making me think without question.

I do it the idea of so yeah, no, I think that's a fantastic question. You know, when I think about social capital, I think with the work that I'm doing with Accelerate Her Future, if we can start focusing on that notion, the earlier the better in terms of supporting young women towards you know, that career transition. So yes, I think it's a great concept to consider well before even college or university.

Katharine Cornfield 30:44 That's great. So I'm happy to hear that because it's something that in my you know, it's been five years that I've been delivering my programming as well and it's really something that I have taken away and to heart and that's what I Talk about that shift from sort of being an adult with an agenda to an advocate for girls because I really feel that there's there's there's a missing piece there, there's sort of a societal and cultural expectation that all of a sudden they are, and a set of expectations, and they literally are in the midst of a massive transition that has been studied in other realms and other domains. And and, and yet not applied in that in that context.

Golnaz Golnaraghi 31:25 100%. And I think that this idea was going to add with social capital, certainly, at that age, at any age, but particularly at that age starts with a relationships with peers and relationships with other girls and young women that are in their circles, right, because a lot happens there as well in terms of those relationships, but that the notion of social capital, I think, is is a great one to bring into that sort of context and beyond if that makes sense.

Katharine Cornfield 31:55 That does to me, so for our listeners if maybe because I'm totally Now and I'm back around. But for our listeners, could you maybe briefly describe social capital? I have my own definition in mind, but maybe you could, from your perspective share what that means.

Golnaz Golnaraghi 32:13 So what it means to me is social capital is our networks, our connections, access to a community. And to me social capital is very reciprocal. So how reciprocal is my social community and in in how I not only advance their goals, but how they support me in advancing my goals. That would be my definition, and I'd love to hear yours.

Katharine Cornfield 32:42 Interesting. Well, I To me, it's the it's the sum of your the sum benefit, I suppose of your relationships. And yes, I completely agree that it's reciprocal but but if you are in transition, which newcomers to Canada are and social capital is talked about a great length and that context. But if you're new to your circumstances and to your context, then your social capital is weaker than if you're established literally have a network and you have communities, you have people that you can call on or ask or rely on. And for girls that are entering Middle School, that entire their systems have been disrupted. And it does irritate me that we attribute that to a loss of self esteem. And I know that there's a lot of study around that. But I wonder if that that that concept is and you and I are going to have to continue this conversation. I can tell already. But I do really think that it's applicable in that context. So

Golnaz Golnaraghi 33:44 for sure, and I equated to even you know, I lived with my mom where when we first moved here as a newcomer, her only source of economic empowerment was to start a small business right and the schools back decades and talk about a lack of social capital initially, yet, what I will say is that when she started her business, this is with limited English, no high school diploma, to be honest. And she did it. And one thing she was very good at, despite the barriers that come with being a new immigrant is how she built those relationships with people like her banker and her lawyer and the community of women that supported her business, you know, that her customers and whatnot, in a way, even though she didn't have access initially, and you know, definitely, it wasn't easy, that to me that the reciprocal nature came through her strength and her skill in building those relationships in a way that long term. It was reciprocal, and it allowed her to really thrive over time, and be able to achieve her goals and making sure that we got through high school And into university. Right? That was her driving motive. And when I look at now at all the resources that are out there for women owned businesses and whatnot, it makes me think, wow, what could have been possible for her when it comes to not only the social capital piece, but everything else? Had she had to live that experience today, right?

Katharine Cornfield 35:21 Yeah. And and here we go full circle, which is good, because I I'm very much enjoying this conversation. But to me, first of all, thank you for sharing that story of your mother that's a gem of a story to come up in a conversation like this, especially because, you know, this is a series where where we do talk about sort of money, business and politics and women and women entrepreneurs and the importance of financial literacy to economic independence. And, and here you have a story of, of how your mother sort of started there and built up a life and built up her social capital but also our economic independence and supported you It's that's a great, great story. So, you know, our listeners are in part that they're they're mostly parents and educators. But some of them are also employers and organizational leaders. So I guess my my sort of wrap up question is, what would be the one thing that you would want those listeners, our listeners who are wanting to support the beginner women in their lives, whether they are their daughters or their nieces or their neighbors or even their employees, what would be the one thing that they that you would want them to take away? From our conversation today? It's a tough question.

Golnaz Golnaraghi 36:36 I know we've covered a lot of ground. So I would say for parents, encourage your daughters to explore the possibilities. Encourage them to take part in programs like ambiSHEous and others that are out there to really explore what they want to do, right. It's about giving them space and supporting them to dream big and really step into what brings them alive when it comes to whatever educational path they want to take etc. I think that's really important to give them space to dream big, and to see anything as possible for Career Education folks, I would say. And this is a question I always ask is, they do so much hard work. They care about our students, and I've seen that firsthand. Yet I think there's an opportunity to really look at again, the experiences of women, the experiences of international students, that our women to really dig deep and look at what I say the intersection so move beyond looking at aggregate student bodies, aggregate reports, and to really see like what are the experiences of our women identifying students and even go deeper than that, to see how can we support them more meaningfully based on their experiences to career, you know, our pathways towards that transition into the workplace. So that would be high level what what I would say for career educators and for employers, I would say when it comes to recruitment, and I'm seeing like, honestly, Katharine, the conversation around what we're talking about has shifted so much, particularly over the last three to five years, and we do have a long way to go. But for employers, I would say like, move beyond your traditional recruitment channels, tap into, for example, student clubs and groups, women in engineering, women and computer science. There's so many different student groups that exist on campuses that are important to tap into, listen, like really listen to what are the experiences of our early talent, particularly within the profile of who we're talking about. And ultimately, you know, hiring these brilliant young women is one thing, yet creating an inclusive environment where they feel like they really belong is also equally important. And so how do we do that in a genuine way so that they can navigate and advance their careers, in a way on their own terms feeling emboldened and enabled,

Katharine Cornfield 39:16 that How's that? How's that? That is like, perfect. I feel like I should stand up and do like a cheer dance because I cannot agree more here, here is what I put on Twitter. So thanks so much for taking the time today to join me and to sort of wander around this conversation with me because it did go in different directions than then I could have anticipated just because I could not resist and I'm a total geek. So thank you for sharing your expertise for sharing your your experience, your lived experience, your professional experience, and for giving us such a positive I think and hopeful lens and practical, let's be clear, practical lens on what we collectively can do. to support young women moving forward into the future. So thank you very much do you have a final thought you would like to leave us with?

Golnaz Golnaraghi 40:07 I'd like to say my absolute pleasure and because of what you've noted in terms of what we share in common, keep doing the work that you're doing. It's absolutely awesome. Thank you.

Katharine Cornfield 40:19 Thank you very much. ambiSHEous is a social purpose venture taking direct aim at the gender gap and leadership by providing leading edge training programs focused on the economic empowerment, leadership, development, and career advancement of girls and young women. We are currently developing a network of like minded partner organizations to deliver our proprietary startup self sessions, which combined financial, digital and civic literacy in a simulated entrepreneurial experience. Suitable for girls and young women aged 13. And up the startup self sessions are empowering a new generation of beginner women to become whoever and whatever they Want to be qualified delivery partners are provided comprehensive training license curriculum of full suite of program materials and access to an online community of practice. focused on real life learning. ambiSHEous programs are equipping a new generation of entrepreneurs, leaders and decision makers with the critical skills and knowledge they need to thrive today and in tomorrow's world. If you are a like minded organization interested in joining our next cohort of delivery partners, let's talk visit For more information and to get in touch

thank you to our listeners for joining us on beginner women a show where we throw out our adult agendas to shape a new future for girls. Check out our show notes for the resources we talked about in today's episode, and for actionable insights you can use to nurture and empower the girls. You know, if you like what you hear on our show, write us a review on Apple podcasts. And don't forget to subscribe wherever you find your favorite shows. You can also find us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at ambiSHEous . That's a MB I sh e o us

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